About this Episode:

In this episode,  you’ll learn the importance of being data-driven, and how Surfer works by picking the brain of the biggest algorithm out there.

Joseph is joined by our special guest Michał Suski, who is the co-founder of Surfer, a content intelligence tool for SEO and content marketing. Michał goes into his formal education, how he has a degree in forestry, and his journey to getting a job in the digital marketing and SEO industry. In 2017 the agency’s CEO and his brother Lucjan – co-founded Surfer, the content intelligence tool for SEO and Content Marketing. He has been evangelizing the product and data-driven optimization approach ever since.

Michał Suski discusses what is considered content in SEO terms, and how that has evolved recently since he first began working in SEO. 

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Connect with our host Joseph Franklyn McElroy:




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Joseph goes in-depth on what wise content is, as well as gives examples of how creating wise content allows businesses to gain opportunities to expand and grow. He then gives a bit of current news on Google phasing out the use of third-party cookies over the next couple of years. Joseph also goes in-depth on what are the best opportunities to grow your business through search engine optimization (SEO). Joseph then introduces the guest for today’s episode Michał Suski, who is the co-founder of Surfer, a content intelligence tool for SEO and content marketing. Michał goes into his formal education, how he has a degree in forestry, and his journey to getting a job in the digital marketing and SEO industry. Michał explains the inspiration behind Surfer, and how it was originally created for another agency, but with the help of his brother Surfer was able to break out as its own product.


Joseph explains what SEO is exactly, and Michał expands on the definition, as well as how Surfer works with people to improve their SEO ranking. Michał also discusses webinars he has held where he helps people correct the SEO mistakes they have made while creating their websites. Joseph and Michał discuss how it took almost a year after the inception of Surfer for him and the other founders to pivot from working on Surfer past time to full time. The two also discuss the importance of being data-driven, and how Surfer works by picking the brain of the biggest algorithm out there currently, the Google algorithm, reverse engineering the algorithm to best help its clients improve their websites to raise their SEO ranking. Michał explains in-depth how Surfer reverse engineers the algorithms to satisfy both their clients and the algorithms.


Joseph and Michał discuss whether or not content still matters in SEO, and Michał brings up the quote “you can not rank a page that does not exist”, which he agrees with. The two discuss the nuances of content, and what content is necessary beyond ranking purposes. Michał discusses what is considered content in SEO terms, and how that has evolved recently since he first began working in SEO. He explains how to link sharing used to be the most important aspect in ranking a website, Google ranking now looks for a more well-rounded website. Michał also goes in-depth on what Surfer does and the different tools that it offers, and how each of them works. Michał explains how while Surfer is an incredible tool that people can use, it is not an autopilot service and people will be disappointed if they go into the process expecting the software to do everything for them.


Joseph and Michał discuss how Surfer stands out compared to other similar software in the industry. Joseph makes a point on how Surfer has recently won an award and is one of the top software currently in the industry. Michał explains how the content editor is the feature of Surfer that brings in the most clients, and how the content editor is one of the most advanced writing assistants available currently. Joseph announces that he and Michał are going to be uploading a demo of Surfer to the Wise Content Creates Wealth YouTube channel.


00:00:30.780 –> 00:00:40.260 Joseph McElroy: Hello! thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of Wise Content Creates Wealth. You heard that content is king, Well,  wise content rules the world.

00:00:40.710 –> 00:00:51.390 Joseph McElroy: Wise content is content that incorporates search science, behavioral science artificial intelligence, big data, and processes to make content that converts and better gets more attention.

00:00:51.960 –> 00:01:02.100 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklyn McElroy and I am a marketing technology expert who has built a multimillion-dollar company I’m also an Award-winning Content Producer.

00:01:03.060 –> 00:01:12.870 Joseph McElroy: Now I coined the term wise content to describe content really that is impactful and inspiring to people who encounter it to take action.

00:01:13.200 –> 00:01:22.620 Joseph McElroy: That can be as simple as a decision to buy a product or service or as complex as organizing for societal change.

00:01:23.430 –> 00:01:35.190 Joseph McElroy: You know classic example IBM I use is that is the is the re-release of the 1936 propaganda film reefer madness which you know was.

00:01:35.610 –> 00:01:47.040 Joseph McElroy: Was anti-marijuana in the 30s, but it was re-released in the 70s and it became a cult hit on college campuses because it was so funny.

00:01:47.610 –> 00:01:59.010 Joseph McElroy: And that allowed the distribution company to expand its presence in the film world it was a small little company, nobody knew about that distribution company was new line cinema.

00:01:59.400 –> 00:02:12.510 Joseph McElroy: which later became responsible for runaway hits like a nightmare on elm street and Lord of the Rings trilogy so putting out a piece of content for them, which in this case is a movie made them into a big giant business.

00:02:12.960 –> 00:02:20.310 Joseph McElroy: A more recent example will be might be about how oreo won the super bowl 2013 super bowl with the tweet.

00:02:21.030 –> 00:02:31.950 Joseph McElroy: which, if you look at basically there was a blackout, and they did a tweet that just showed a picture of an oreo and said, you can still dunk in the dark and it just went viral all over the place.

00:02:33.390 –> 00:02:44.460 Joseph McElroy: Of course, they’re still mundane but still important examples which would be landing pages and great content on a website that effectively get companies found or get people to convert.

00:02:45.450 –> 00:02:54.240 Joseph McElroy: Many factors go into the creation of wise content, first and foremost, its creators, must understand the needs and desires of their audiences.

00:02:54.630 –> 00:03:06.360 Joseph McElroy: And this requires careful analysis and use of data and tools and in this day and age there are a lot of AI tools we’re talking about later to inform decisions about what to create and how to promote it.

00:03:06.990 –> 00:03:13.380 Joseph McElroy: Other knowledge tools and tactics, such as behavioral science artificial intelligence semantic research, and even.

00:03:13.770 –> 00:03:21.300 Joseph McElroy: Co-creation with enforcer influencers can have a meaningful impact on the content produced in resolving effectiveness.

00:03:22.260 –> 00:03:30.480 Joseph McElroy: These tools and announced can also dynamically change cost-wise content and personalize it for more effective results.

00:03:30.930 –> 00:03:41.280 Joseph McElroy: The whole world of content is dramatically changing and it’s changing fast so armed with knowledge and tools creators can produce wise content and place themselves.

00:03:41.460 –> 00:03:54.090 Joseph McElroy: In a strong position to build on that content success so that’s why I created this wise and this podcast to investigate the people science techniques stories case studies in tools of wise content.

00:03:56.400 –> 00:04:02.700 Joseph McElroy: In my own career to give you some examples I’ve had one piece of content, bring me a seven-figure client.

00:04:03.090 –> 00:04:09.990 Joseph McElroy: Just one blog post, I put up and it brought me a seven-figure client and seven figures for eight years.

00:04:10.530 –> 00:04:16.650 Joseph McElroy: I’ve had one piece of content go viral and give me is known as an artist with work now and museums.

00:04:17.070 –> 00:04:32.190 Joseph McElroy: I haven’t one piece of content get featured as poetry on the jumbotron and time squares and I had one tweet get 50,000 signups for a startup within one hour and crashed their servers because so many people were coming there.

00:04:32.820 –> 00:04:41.910 Joseph McElroy: I built my career on these moments of wise content now I am a home run hitter type of guy so that’s what I do.

00:04:42.330 –> 00:04:53.430 Joseph McElroy: But I know that actually, singles win a season, you can always depend upon getting home runs like that all the time, so you have to have good practice content being produced.

00:04:54.210 –> 00:05:05.670 Joseph McElroy: In a smart way wise content all the time that’s getting the small wins so I’ve taken my knowledge and then found skilled professionals to form a company called Galileo tech media.

00:05:06.060 –> 00:05:19.740 Joseph McElroy: We focus on travel and destination companies multiple location companies B2B E-commerce and our turn top services are wise content, smart search engine optimization, website monetization and digital PR.

00:05:20.880 –> 00:05:33.360 Joseph McElroy: which includes podcasting read more about us at galileotechmedia.com and sign up for our newsletter so you can know what we’re doing and what’s coming down the Pike in terms of these podcasts and webinars and things that we might do.

00:05:34.590 –> 00:05:41.130 Joseph McElroy: Today we’re going to talk about who can create optimized content and why that answer might be everyone.

00:05:42.330 –> 00:06:02.070 Joseph McElroy: But first I got a little news Google has announced that third-party cookies won’t be depreciated in chrome until late 2023 it has moved back its time timeline to block third party cookies in chrome with an announcement essentially yesterday morning.

00:06:03.510 –> 00:06:10.260 Joseph McElroy: And this allows for more Community into it and also big companies other big companies want to have a say in what’s going on.

00:06:11.400 –> 00:06:16.770 Joseph McElroy: And it’s so they’re going to actually do it in two stages starting late 2022.

00:06:17.850 –> 00:06:29.730 Joseph McElroy: After some testing of the new changes and things are planning to do, they will start having a time where people can migrate their services but they’ll have sort of a balanced approach and then.

00:06:30.810 –> 00:06:35.430 Joseph McElroy: Then in Stage two they’re going to just phase out all those third parties.

00:06:36.150 –> 00:06:47.310 Joseph McElroy: cookies now, why is that important for me to mention besides, just as a business matter you know if you’re doing paid advertising, you need to need to know that’s coming down the Pike but you know, I think that.

00:06:48.180 –> 00:06:54.900 Joseph McElroy: You know third-party cookies allow you to be a lot of information about who is coming to your site and why they’re there.

00:06:55.530 –> 00:07:04.500 Joseph McElroy: To get third-party data to fill in people’s what their perhaps their intent is and things like that when you’re marketing without as much of that information.

00:07:05.100 –> 00:07:13.710 Joseph McElroy: You know you’re going to rely more on content, what are the content people looking at why do you know what would be the purpose of them looking at that content.

00:07:13.980 –> 00:07:24.900 Joseph McElroy: what are the search terms that maybe they got there your content and understanding-wise content is going to become even more important because of this and that’s my opinion so anyway.

00:07:27.030 –> 00:07:29.970 Joseph McElroy: I was going to mention another thing I think is important.

00:07:31.260 –> 00:07:43.590 Joseph McElroy: is how do you spot possible homerun opportunities I was actually looking around today for various reasons, I was looking for something stuff related to cat food and I.

00:07:45.270 –> 00:07:47.220 Joseph McElroy: Remember the time when I was looking to.

00:07:49.230 –> 00:07:58.440 Joseph McElroy: Somebody wanted to chat with a new store in their stores, and I remember a time when related, which is a beauty product man came to me and asked that they need they needed to increase their sales in.

00:07:59.400 –> 00:08:10.290 Joseph McElroy: In target stores and I found that the time target hasn’t what hadn’t really well optimized for coupons so I just optimized for target coupons got the number one position.

00:08:10.590 –> 00:08:19.260 Joseph McElroy: and had a page that just had the coupons for related products that can be downloaded and printed that they can only redeem the store and we increase the latest.

00:08:20.790 –> 00:08:26.190 Joseph McElroy: You know in-store sales by about 10% may get to keep their kind of sort of their products in there.

00:08:26.430 –> 00:08:36.750 Joseph McElroy: And that was sort of a home run for me now I don’t know if those kinds of big home runs are now available because you know people are optimizing for coupons but I look for coupons for cat food.

00:08:37.020 –> 00:08:42.600 Joseph McElroy: On Google and me, and I looked in the keyword planner some that they’re still pretty significant.

00:08:43.080 –> 00:08:49.740 Joseph McElroy: search just for that specific term, and if you go through all the variations on that there are thousands and thousands of searches monthly for that

00:08:50.010 –> 00:09:01.500 Joseph McElroy:  when I look for the search on that a page came up that there were no ads on so nobody’s paying to advertise for coupons and the term first two positions were held by.

00:09:02.040 –> 00:09:11.640 Joseph McElroy: by Korea, which means that the other big companies are not really paying attention to it, their way down the page and then there was a.

00:09:12.480 –> 00:09:19.380 Joseph McElroy: Little site was not that little it’s a coupon site that was there that had a number three page that was recent.

00:09:19.740 –> 00:09:29.580 Joseph McElroy: Recently ranked coupon site that the page that was ranking was not particularly powerful page so that third position and my book is wide open.

00:09:29.820 –> 00:09:39.240 Joseph McElroy: And if you are a brand I would say, even the position to or one you could be in the game because if  Korea has both of those top two and you’re a big brand you probably can catch one of those.

00:09:40.440 –> 00:09:51.300 Joseph McElroy: So, you know that is that’s the type of opportunities, you want to look for in developing wise content to see where you can actually build a business.

00:09:52.200 –> 00:10:01.470 Joseph McElroy: In what you’re doing so somebody might know a little bit about this and the SEO space is Michal Suski.

00:10:02.340 –> 00:10:18.900 Joseph McElroy: Michal Suski is an SEO Specialist and Co-founder of Surfer the content intelligence tool for SEO and content marketing that has been evangelizing the product and data-driven optimum approach every optimization approach, ever since. Hello, Michal!

00:10:19.680 –> 00:10:23.520 Michal Suski: hey hey thanks for having me does a big pleasure for me to be here with you today.

00:10:24.030 –> 00:10:34.050 Joseph McElroy: Oh I’m so glad that you agreed to come on the show so now, I was looking at your past and you actually have a Master’s in Forestry, right?

00:10:35.460 –> 00:10:36.420 Michal Suski Yes, I do.

00:10:36.780 –> 00:10:40.050 Joseph McElroy: How did you go from forestry to SEO?

00:10:41.130 –> 00:10:57.090 Michal Suski: By definitely by accident like if I found a job during the end of the master’s degree that was quality assurance, so I was testing software, in the meantime, and it took me like a couple of years there to.

00:10:58.410 –> 00:11:22.620 Michal Suski: master how the software is built from like inside and that was actually super helpful for me to change my job to start an SEO position because my friend, was running the Agency and the Agency was established in a small village 300 people living there, can you imagine.

00:11:23.520 –> 00:11:24.330 Michal Suski: Your agency.

00:11:25.290 –> 00:11:38.520Michal Suski: Building side inside this village and he was basically looking for people he knew that can learn so relatively smart people that can accommodate to a new

00:11:39.240 –> 00:11:52.290Michal Suski: Environment and at some point in the past, he basically asked me hey do you want to try, I said, whatever is it just show me some information what is seo and

00:11:52.800 –> 00:12:09.660 Michal Suski: What I’m going to do, and he sent me a video of George Machineski sharing keys 2016 SEO ultimate guides three-hour-long you know kind of thing and that’s how we all start it.

00:12:10.740 –> 00:12:16.320 Joseph McElroy: Was fabulous that’s a good origin story every origin story yeah.

00:12:17.670 –> 00:12:25.380 Joseph McElroy: So, so you form, then you formed a company with your brother is your brother, also an SEO

00:12:26.550 –> 00:12:28.770 Michal Suski: He was a developer at the time.

00:12:29.970 –> 00:12:30.360 Joseph McElroy: and

00:12:31.050 –> 00:12:38.730 michalsuski: Like we were struggling in this agency, can you imagine with hiring people like there’s No one on the market, you look.

00:12:39.720 –> 00:12:50.220 michalsuski: Right, there is no one who is experienced in seo there are no more friends and family to hire and it was like okay it’s time to scale up.

00:12:50.580 –> 00:13:06.510 michalsuski: But when we cannot scale up the manpower it’s time to scale up the processes so we build an internal tool that was like surfer alpha it was a different name and well written in PHP but in general.

00:13:07.110 –> 00:13:26.280 michalsuski: The principles were similar to do reverse engineering on content and we build it for the Agency and it turned out great I mean it worked for the agency it allowed us to scale up and then my brother jumped in he was super he is a super skilled developer

00:13:27.660 –> 00:13:32.550 michalsuski: that helped us build the proper prototype that we went beat.

00:13:33.930 –> 00:13:55.470 michalsuski: On global market and dad was the biggest moment in my life, I think, regarding the career when it all started like we three of us, myself Slavic Tchaikovsky the agencies, all in there, and my brother, we founded a team of three that started building surfer as a side project.

00:13:55.830 –> 00:13:58.650 Michal Suski: So that was validated idea.

00:13:59.220 –> 00:14:06.150 Joseph McElroy: Alright, great so when we come back we’ll find out more about the Surfer and what it does all right, and when you think about SEO.

00:14:07.140 –> 00:14:08.640 Michal Suski: yeah so it’s.

00:16:41.790 –> 00:16:50.070 Joseph McElroy: This is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the Wise Content Creates Wealth Podcasts, My guest, Michal Suski of Surfer.

00:16:50.520 –> 00:17:00.690 Joseph McElroy: So Michal, how you know when I was my wife was telling listen to my podcast the other day she told me later said, you know, sometimes you guys talk about acronyms and things that.

00:17:01.050 –> 00:17:15.840 Joseph McElroy: don’t really know what they mean now she knows what SEO, which is that you should tell your listeners what various things mean, so I will tell the listeners that SEO means search engine optimization and it’s about.

00:17:16.740 –> 00:17:22.200 Joseph McElroy: The practices that you need to the that you need to do this, the science and art.

00:17:22.650 –> 00:17:37.020 Joseph McElroy: of getting content on your website to show up in the search engines and, ideally, the servers show up in the search engines near the top of the search results, so that you can get traffic and get business you agree with that.

00:17:38.160 –> 00:17:46.860 Michal Suski: 100%, 100%, I have to adjust that in my definition of what Surfer does to help increase these positions.

00:17:47.220 –> 00:17:55.020 Joseph McElroy: yeah so, and you know, I think it also encompasses actually what happens when people land on your site.

00:17:56.250 –> 00:18:07.620 Joseph McElroy: And you know and lands on the content and you know encompasses that content actually is converting them into some sort of potential customer journey.

00:18:08.400 –> 00:18:18.150 Joseph McElroy: So you know SEO merges into something called inbound marketing which merges into something called content marketing which merges into something called digital public relations.

00:18:18.600 –> 00:18:25.980 Joseph McElroy: So the lines between all these practices are hard to define and it really is dependent upon.

00:18:26.640 –> 00:18:39.210 Joseph McElroy: You know who you’re talking to now you’ve trained hundreds of SEOs and copywriters and marketers when did you do that, and what do you think was the best way that they found to learn it.

00:18:41.430 –> 00:18:54.030Michal Suski: On the webinars, I think I posted a couple of hundreds of one to one the most, but the most impactful were webinars that people joined to see.

00:18:54.570 –> 00:19:05.880 Michal Suski: tools in action that was the most successful type of webinar when with been myself and my guests we’ve been analyzing pages from the Internet.

00:19:06.480 –> 00:19:21.270 Michal Suski:: trying to find what’s wrong with help of the tools and show on a real-life example how this knowledge can be used in listeners’ cases because it’s kind of.

00:19:22.260 –> 00:19:38.610 Michal Suski: Like it’s the same stuff over and over like pages not touching all of the topics that are required to present the whole story or by just too slow to load and that drags it down or it is not.

00:19:39.750 –> 00:19:52.770 Michal Suski: styled properly, so you land on some sort of huge image that tells you nothing, and you have to scroll down and scroll again to get devalued, so these common mistakes were.

00:19:53.970 –> 00:20:07.560Michal Suski: highlighted and explained why are they mistakes What can cause and so on and so forth, so well yeah That were the webinars and the most impactful things to teach people.

00:20:08.970 –> 00:20:12.360 Joseph McElroy: Well, and yeah you’re actually sitting in your webinar cave right now right.

00:20:13.380 –> 00:20:14.130 michalsuski: Absolutely.

00:20:14.580 –> 00:20:16.290 Joseph McElroy: yeah it looks like a good cave for it.

00:20:17.310 –> 00:20:24.270 Joseph McElroy: So you know we before the break, we were talking about you know you hit this moment of Aha we got a product that has some.

00:20:24.870 –> 00:20:38.880 Joseph McElroy: Potential you made a beta and you and the Agency owner and your brother decided to form surfer so you went from an agency to a product, what does that try transformation from agency to product look like.

00:20:39.870 –> 00:20:51.570 Michal Suski: yeah I really like this, this definition of agency turned SAS and the transformation, well, it is extremely hard, because you have this transition.

00:20:52.500 –> 00:21:05.730 Michal Suski: period is not one day it’s not one week it’s at least half a year for me that was even a year, as I was head of seo so involved in many businesses many clients right here in the office.

00:21:06.120 –> 00:21:29.580Michal Suski: And also doing the side project there, so it took us almost forever to move from our daily tasks in the agency to focus 100% on the product that was almost a year since we started beta and move to like a full-time job, almost a year after that that was a crazy ride but totally worth it.

00:21:30.240 –> 00:21:37.920 Joseph McElroy: Did you transition your agency clients to the new platform or did you lose them.

00:21:39.510 –> 00:21:41.340 Michal Suski: The Agency is still up and running.

00:21:43.260 –> 00:21:57.600 Michal Suski: So uh we basically left, the right people in the Agency so they can handle and they took over great probably even better than when we were doing it.

00:21:58.500 –> 00:22:12.210 Michal Suski: So yeah really great to see that they just build the new office I’m sitting in a new office of that agency that was first at the Arctic of this sea of my CEO is home.

00:22:13.980 –> 00:22:21.360Michal Suski: a lot has changed since we left the Agency so it’s just great to see the positive impact.

00:22:22.260 –> 00:22:33.690 Joseph McElroy: So, most of all, almost all SAS products are data-driven right, so I think you mentioned data-driven when we were talking about it, what does it mean to be data-driven.

00:22:35.160 –> 00:22:37.230 Michal Suski: In this case, it is about making.

00:22:38.400 –> 00:22:47.520 Michal Suski: decisions based on data like seo is considered as a magician is he eating some.

00:22:48.030 –> 00:22:57.570 Michal Suski: Some keys on the keyboard and doing some magic stuff and boo bay’s ranks better and not anymore, the guesswork is removed.

00:22:57.810 –> 00:23:15.480 Michal Suski: With the data-driven approach, so you know that the content should belong for a short form that the content should touch these on that topic, or should be like a short definition and so on, and it means to be data-driven and, in our case.

00:23:16.770 –> 00:23:28.890 Michal Suski: It is picking the brain of the biggest algorithm we can imagine, which is the Google algorithm as.

00:23:29.520 –> 00:23:40.350 Michal Suskii: The principle of the surfer is to reverse engineer google’s algorithm and you mentioned these behavioral signals of satisfaction.

00:23:41.250 –> 00:23:56.820 Michal Suski: The content that is really created for people, so it keeps the high positions for four years and Google measures it really is indeed a like if people like that content.

00:23:58.080 –> 00:24:01.920 Michal Suski: If it’s the best answer and so on, and when you.

00:24:03.090 –> 00:24:19.140 Michal Suski: Take the output of that algorithm you can find out what are the common elements of pages that are being rewarded by this algorithm Of course there are thousands of adjustment knobs in debt and.

00:24:19.170 –> 00:24:20.460 Michal Suski: machine learning and even.

00:24:20.610 –> 00:24:25.350 Michal Suski: knobs that are turning themselves based on data so it’s kind of.

00:24:26.850 –> 00:24:44.130 Michal Suski: We are not able to absolutely I mean completely reverse engineer it, yet we can help ourselves with the output to create our output to be better for both people and the algorithm to satisfy both parties.

00:24:44.940 –> 00:24:55.440 Joseph McElroy: Well, that you know, I agree that 90% of what was done for seo is totally you know predictable, you know, the thing that I.

00:24:56.310 –> 00:25:05.940 Joseph McElroy: I question in my experience has shown is that there are some things that Google doesn’t know, for example, I do something called.

00:25:06.420 –> 00:25:19.740 Joseph McElroy: Research academic studies called memorable tourism experiences right and and and they haven’t been really commercialized the concept of memorable tourism experience and that experience is experimenting with it and it’s a way to use emotional.

00:25:21.000 –> 00:25:27.360 Joseph McElroy: signals that are particular to travel that make people have a memorable experience right.

00:25:27.840 –> 00:25:39.390 Joseph McElroy: And, and they and they found that anticipation, you know, makes the experience more memorable so doing words that you know build anticipation for particular.

00:25:39.750 –> 00:25:47.550 Joseph McElroy: emotional experiences like it could be hedonism it could be refreshment it could be interaction with local culture things like that.

00:25:47.970 –> 00:26:06.720 Joseph McElroy: is something that many, many and most travel writing and content is not done right they more follow the traditional way they’re trying to be viral which is 10 top things to do that, you know things like that or they’re trying to be you know the full of data to get shares.

00:26:07.860 –> 00:26:11.550 Joseph McElroy: And the thing that we found is if you also concentrate on.

00:26:11.820 –> 00:26:22.740 Joseph McElroy: Building anticipation for memorable experiences, you get a higher click-through rate so then that translates into hot user engagement which, of course, then helps you rank higher in the search engines.

00:26:23.130 –> 00:26:29.160 Joseph McElroy: But there is nothing right now, as of yet that will tell you are, you should use, you know.

00:26:29.430 –> 00:26:36.540 Joseph McElroy: there’s none of the data out there, people doing this sort of thing to say, you should use these types of memorable experiences so so The point is, is that.

00:26:36.870 –> 00:26:50.700 Joseph McElroy: Things that are new in terms of behavioral science things that are new in terms of that are come out discoveries people have not incorporated that into content on a mass scale so Google can’t discover it right.

00:26:51.390 –> 00:26:52.770 Michal Suski: yeah that’s true, I mean.

00:26:54.150 –> 00:26:57.150 Michal Suski We only have the information that is already there.

00:26:57.210 –> 00:27:10.230 Michal Suski: yeah and it helps us with this initial stage like you cannot do everything we have reverse engineering, there is always needed a mix of creative and like.

00:27:10.770 –> 00:27:27.630Michal Suski: art in content creation and our task on servers and is to make it readable for Google bot, so you can actually have real readers from organic if you combine it with where the creativeness and the nature of people in general.

00:27:29.040 –> 00:27:32.730 Joseph McElroy: you talked about the democratization of a data-driven approach, what do you mean by that.

00:27:33.660 –> 00:27:43.920Michal Suski: is like allowing people to get assumptions based on data without actually getting the data so data acquisition, it is.

00:27:44.580 –> 00:27:57.900 Michal Suski: really hard I had hard times in data acquisition we’ve been doing it all manually and presenting it in a consumable way to the people, which is what I call the democratization of data-driven.

00:27:58.710 –> 00:28:06.330 Joseph McElroy: Okay cool all right we’re gonna take a break, when we come back I’m gonna find out if you think content really matters for seo.

00:30:54.540 –> 00:31:05.700 Joseph McElroy: This is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the Wise Content Creates Wealth Podcast my guest Michal Suski. So, Michal this content still matter in SEO?

00:31:07.890 –> 00:31:21.210 Michal Suski: Well, I heard a quote from Kyle Roof he’s actually running a competitor’s business to surfer but this quote is brilliant, you can rank a page that doesn’t exist.

00:31:22.020 –> 00:31:43.560 Michal Suski: Yes, and not really a so the content is required to become not just you know your organic search if you have a one-pager that just mentioned your telephone number and your name you won’t be found in any other way than by your name or the telephone number.

00:31:44.610 –> 00:31:51.030 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know I, of course, you know that you know it’s funny you mentioned that because I was thinking.

00:31:51.360 –> 00:31:59.160 Joseph McElroy: that a lot of people when they have multiple store locations and things like that don’t create content for everyone to score if they just list.

00:31:59.550 –> 00:32:07.140 Joseph McElroy: telephone numbers and addresses and think that’s going to work, no, you have to create content for each score and then you get ranked for the.

00:32:07.530 –> 00:32:17.100 Joseph McElroy: The store for relevant information so um So what do you think what has changed, most of the five years about content last five years, about content.

00:32:17.880 –> 00:32:38.400 Michal Suski: Content wasn’t that valuable five years ago, when I was joining the SEO industry, it relied 90% on links it was like well link building everywhere, and the only content optimization where relate was related to Meta tags.

00:32:38.700 –> 00:32:46.140Michal Suski: We take the title of the page and put a keyword inside and maybe put it here and there, and that’s it.

00:32:46.560 –> 00:33:07.350Michal Suskii: let’s do links 90% of the time and now and during these five years, there was a huge shift and a huge movement even that you can rank without links, you can have a website that has no history, no backlinks pointing to it, yet still

00:33:08.400 –> 00:33:18.150 Michal Suski: fulfill a small niche that can be profitable and can be ranked with just content so in the past that wasn’t possible.

00:33:18.810 –> 00:33:30.930 Joseph McElroy: I think that I agree with you that you can do without links, but you do have to have traffic right, so you have to get traffic some way without traffic you can’t get right, so you know we do things like syndication networks.

00:33:31.290 –> 00:33:35.550 Joseph McElroy: You know, to get traffic sometimes so you can do without links, but you do have to have traffic.

00:33:39.660 –> 00:33:51.480 Joseph McElroy: Why is the topical relevance of the website is equally important to a well-optimized created piece of content, why is it, why is it topic topical relevance said.

00:33:51.690 –> 00:33:54.240Michal Suski: We have, in general, we can consider.

00:33:56.280 –> 00:34:08.070Michal Suski: website on two levels like one level is the particular URL that we are trying to optimize so we call answers all the questions where within the specific.

00:34:08.820 –> 00:34:15.390 Michal Suski: keywords that we are covered in black best running shoes, so we explained what are they how to choose them and so on, so forth.

00:34:15.720 –> 00:34:38.040 Michal Suski: that’s on the URL level, but a lot of people forget that you have to build trustworthiness by becoming an expert in a specific industry if you are explaining running shoes cover all of the aspects and that’s the topical relevance of the domain, so you are not only.

00:34:39.450 –> 00:34:55.170 Michal Suski: Reviewing the shoes that make you money, but you also review injuries in running you also review what to do with the knee pain and why is running on the tarmac different than running on the grass and so on and so forth.

00:34:55.530 –> 00:35:14.160 Michal Suski: And the topical relevance makes Google think alright this website is really a trustworthy and complete source of knowledge about shoes, so I will rank it higher because they are not only one URL and that’s it about shoes, they are complex.

00:35:15.450 –> 00:35:23.700 Joseph McElroy: So you mentioned when we were talking earlier about a snowball effect How does that few can you say what that is and how it’s fueled by content.

00:35:24.780 –> 00:35:33.030Michal Suski: that’s exactly going for fulfilling their whole niche to making the topical relevance to the maximum so.

00:35:33.300 –> 00:35:48.600 Michal Suski: covering all of the topics in a niche and a snowball effect can be created within the smallest niche you can imagine, and of course, you start small but you grow big like I have a friend who runs a website.

00:35:49.080 –> 00:36:01.020 Michal Suski: About gardening but not gardening in general but organic gardening so he needs down to the bare minimum and he’s covering only topics related.

00:36:01.800 –> 00:36:26.190 Michal Suski:  strictly to organic gardening and he achieved the goal of creating the snowball effect by taking over the whole organic gardening niche from now on, he can climb to broader topics about gardening so you have to start small and covert a hall thing like.

00:36:27.450 –> 00:36:30.210 michalsuski: These big fish in a small pond.

00:36:30.510 –> 00:36:31.080 Joseph McElroy: Because this.

00:36:31.230 –> 00:36:38.790 Michal Suski: will affect if you have this approach, you can create a snowball effect we just actually growing organic traffic constantly.

00:36:38.940 –> 00:36:51.090 Joseph McElroy: it’s a little bit like a military campaign you conquer the territory, you can conquer with the resources, you have, and then you use the land that you can conquer to fuel finances so that you can go there.

00:36:52.500 –> 00:36:53.700 michalsuski: Like a video game.

00:36:54.180 –> 00:36:55.920 Joseph McElroy: So let’s talk about your software.

00:36:56.940 –> 00:37:00.150 Joseph McElroy: You are what what what a surfer do, what kind of features does it have?

00:37:01.080 –> 00:37:10.590Michal Suski: Well, it does a bunch of things he’s it started as the SEO tool for experts, but we are moving towards.

00:37:11.160 –> 00:37:25.470Michal Suski: the democratization of this data-driven approach to content, so I will just mention essentials, which is the streamlined process of determining the topics that you should be covering.

00:37:25.800 –> 00:37:35.640 Michal Suski: To build this expertise in a niche and then execute that strategy with a data-driven approach which is more or less.

00:37:35.970 –> 00:37:49.980 Michal Suski: analyzing pages that are currently being rewarded by Google finding out why are they being revolted and replicating the best practices they have specifically for their keywords.

00:37:50.670 –> 00:38:10.470 Michal Suski: into a day in your location, so you are really specific and real-time, and you are creating the best content, you can for today and the days that are got coming so that’s what surfer does well this streamlined process ideation to execution.

00:38:11.490 –> 00:38:23.790 Joseph McElroy: A fabulous and I see that you have a content editor a content planner a search analyzer search stands for search engine results page analyzer, it analyzes losing the results.

00:38:24.360 –> 00:38:33.240 Joseph McElroy: You have a seo audit tool, a keyword research tool something called keyword surfer, and a content editor extension one of those two.

00:38:35.940 –> 00:38:49.560 Michal Suski: In general, I’d like to focus just on those that are the most important for everyone listening to us today that will be the content editor for the execution, so you basically type like in Google docs.

00:38:50.220 –> 00:39:00.600 Michal Suski: And you see on the right-hand side words and phrases that should be included topics that should be covered and guidelines that you have made like 1000 words long because.

00:39:00.960 –> 00:39:09.390Michal Suski: not out of the blue, not because it is a general practice but because pages that are caught in the ranking for your target keywords.

00:39:09.990 –> 00:39:25.230 Michal Suski:: Have this amount of content, so we have to align with them and the content planner tool that will tell you about all of the topics your competitors cover in the niche so you can.

00:39:26.520 –> 00:39:37.800 Michal Suski: determine quickly the gap between your current situation and the best state of the page that covers all of the topics in a specific niche.

00:39:38.250 –> 00:39:52.620 Michal Suski: And if you are in this finished state of the content planner you have got the snowball effect if you did the job right they are the tools for experts, and I will keep them kind of secret.

00:39:55.380 –> 00:39:57.480 Joseph McElroy: keep them secret, but people could use that right.

00:39:58.530 –> 00:39:59.580 michalsuski: Of course, of course.

00:40:01.290 –> 00:40:14.370 Joseph McElroy: Well, I mean I think an SEO audit is important to be aware of is because you have to know, technically, if your site technically doesn’t work yeah you’re not going to succeed in the search engine.

00:40:14.820 –> 00:40:18.360 Michal Suski: He already is there to help you after the publication, so when you.

00:40:18.390 –> 00:40:31.320Michal Suski: got the content, when you learn it on the page, it will, for example, tell you, if it’s still missing something because we have the content created in Google docs and it’s just plain content and we have the content that is actually.

00:40:31.830 –> 00:40:50.700Michal Suskii: On a published website, and you can have a template injecting some stuff here in there, you can have a like footer stuff sidebars ballparks and many different things, and the content that seemed to be optimized in Google docs becomes really diluted.

00:40:52.440 –> 00:40:54.330 Joseph McElroy: We lost you for a second.

00:40:55.350 –> 00:40:55.560 Joseph McElroy: Oh.

00:40:55.620 –> 00:40:57.330 michalsuski: you’re back yeah.

00:40:58.350 –> 00:41:09.300 Michal Suski: that’s the does the storm like it’s a really stormy day here in Poland today so sorry for the inconvenience, yet I cannot do anything about it and.

00:41:11.280 –> 00:41:14.220 Joseph McElroy: You don’t have a lightning analyzer in your product.

00:41:16.560 –> 00:41:24.510 Joseph McElroy: So uh so what is the most, what is the most common misconception somebody might have about surfer when they’re coming to it.

00:41:26.760 –> 00:41:31.110 Michal Suski:  that it will do the job for the people.

00:41:32.190 –> 00:41:34.080 michalsuski: In general it’s not an autopilot.

00:41:34.560 –> 00:41:47.400 Michal Suski: it’s a tool that gathers data and leaves you with making the decision what I’m going to do next, and sometimes people want.

00:41:48.810 –> 00:42:11.460 Michal Suski: want us to generate the content to like create a page for them that’s not going to happen you’ll get the guidelines you will get the topics words and phrases to include but the writing and the creative part is on you it’s not like.

00:42:12.540 –> 00:42:15.960 Michal Suski: A I automation generation and so on.

00:42:16.950 –> 00:42:21.900 Joseph McElroy: And what, what are the most common mistakes people have when they use Surfer.

00:42:23.160 –> 00:42:23.430 michalsuski: When they try too hard.

00:42:24.840 –> 00:42:25.740 Joseph McElroy: They try too hard.

00:42:26.370 –> 00:42:37.650 Michal Suski: yeah like we have this metric content score that is there to help you asked him if you’re doing a good job, and he literally 100% score.

00:42:39.390 –> 00:42:50.040Michal Suski: was just you can imagine, like having 3000 words long article, with so many dependencies inside and trying to get this 1%.

00:42:50.940 –> 00:43:02.220 Michal Suski: It takes them sometimes hours and instead of doing this, my go-to strategies to create another article for Article for 75% of the content score.

00:43:02.700 –> 00:43:15.720 Michal Suski: Instead of chasing the 1% because this way, you will build topical relevance, the content is already better than anyone in the top 10 so yeah chasing the content score too hard is the biggest mistake.

00:43:16.140 –> 00:43:20.940 Joseph McElroy: Alright cool well when we come back we’ll finish up with how you fit in the industry, all right.

00:43:22.230 –> 00:43:22.560 sure.

00:45:39.420 –> 00:45:49.560 Joseph McElroy: This is Joseph Franklyn McElroy back with the Wise Content Creates Wealth podcast and My guest Michal Suski, So Michal,

00:45:50.370 –> 00:46:04.800 Joseph McElroy: You know there’s there started to be a little bit of a marketplace in Ai tool tools and even some of the enterprise systems like bright edge and AI in there, what makes surfer stand out.

00:46:07.350 –> 00:46:10.380 Michal Suski: I feel like the approach.

00:46:11.790 –> 00:46:31.590 Michal Suski: that we have to these streamlined content creation process like we try to wrap it up in some sort of an SOP for building an alternative website from the topical relevance point of view, and I feel like this is the biggest differentiator for Surfer

00:46:32.670 –> 00:46:33.210 Joseph McElroy: looks like.

00:46:34.440 –> 00:46:36.000 Joseph McElroy: lightning strike again.

00:46:37.200 –> 00:46:48.720 Joseph McElroy: I’m assuming he’ll be back in just a second I was so I saw on a recent article that they actually compared well against multiple.

00:46:50.580 –> 00:46:56.940 Joseph McElroy: Multiple platforms and they were, I think you won an award recently right for being one of the top platforms.

00:46:57.720 –> 00:47:00.900 Michal Suski: And I lost you for a second I.

00:47:02.100 –> 00:47:03.960 Joseph McElroy: was just mentioning I’ve seen an article.

00:47:04.200 –> 00:47:10.980 Joseph McElroy: Where you had been compared against a lot of different SEO platforms in the new boom, one of the top three right

00:47:11.220 –> 00:47:12.420 Joseph McElroy: Nice yeah.

00:47:12.990 –> 00:47:22.830 Michal Suski: yeah in general, we are getting traction there is like over 45,000 people using it on daily basis, which is I’m super proud of.

00:47:23.370 –> 00:47:30.660 Michal Suski: so well, it becomes an industry standard and for me, if you are producing content, without any.

00:47:31.050 –> 00:47:50.100Michal Suskii: tool that helps you find out what to write about to satisfy the real demand of both users and Google, if you want the organic traffic, you are losing money like we’ve been hiring some professional content writers that cost us like

00:47:51.390 –> 00:47:59.880 Michal Suski: Three grand per big article, maybe, maybe a lot, maybe not in general for me that’s quite a lot three grand for an article.

00:48:00.330 –> 00:48:09.630 Michal Suski: and imagine that someone is paying three grand for an article that is not being SEO optimized at all, and the SEO optimization.

00:48:10.200 –> 00:48:32.490 Michal Suski: Using surfer, for example, is 99 a month and, if you are paying three K for an article, then why not add this cutting edge technology to the stock, so the article can actually attract people from organic traffic that that’s kind of the thing.

00:48:33.240 –> 00:48:44.820 Joseph McElroy: Would you say the content editor is the feature that is most attractive to your clients and there’s always a feature that brings people in, and then they discovered the other things.

00:48:45.450 –> 00:48:47.250 Michal Suski: 100% it’s.

00:48:47.670 –> 00:48:52.170 Michal Suski: it’s the most advanced writing assistant on the web that

00:48:52.950 –> 00:49:08.940 Michal Suski: Like we have original Inacio SEO really deep data analysis and we transfer this deep data analysis into something actionable for the writers and you mentioned, with the title of these episodes about.

00:49:09.210 –> 00:49:24.780 Michal Suski: Who can write SEO optimized content and why everyone because of a content editor, this is a tool that turns writers into SEO writers, without any extra.

00:49:25.470 –> 00:49:39.900 Michal Suski: Like learning curve and requirements you basically get the guidelines that like I’ve been creating these guidelines manually and tons of  SEO does it still manually so they analyze the top 10 pages.

00:49:40.170 –> 00:49:48.330 Michal Suski: They check the commonalities they try to find out these words and phrases that should be present on the page it takes hours.

00:49:48.540 –> 00:50:06.300 Michal Suski: And it is called super-advanced you know guidelines for content, writers brief creation and so on, while you can have it in one click without any knowledge, the only thing you have to notice to what to write about was the niche so yeah that’s the content editor tool.

00:50:07.320 –> 00:50:22.440 Joseph McElroy: Yeah, it’s great.  I think, I mean there are several tools out there I’ve interviewed a few others here, and I think you guys are doing a pretty good job, I think the challenge for you is that Google doesn’t change the world underneath your feet right.

00:50:25.110 –> 00:50:26.010 Michal Suski: See how it goes.

00:50:26.730 –> 00:50:28.320 Michal Suski: Today, with us.

00:50:29.160 –> 00:50:49.710 Michal Suski: With the like we have some servers on GCB and they were down for a couple of hours, so our newest feature that actually incorporates AI in terms of the outline of the article creation that is generated with AI it was down for a couple of hours, just because of Google GCB platform.

00:50:49.980 –> 00:50:50.400 Michal Suski: yeah.

00:50:51.900 –> 00:51:02.070 Joseph McElroy: yeah The fact of the matter is is Google, you know it’s been abandoned of  SEO existence, from the beginning, as they change their algorithms so you know they.

00:51:02.610 –> 00:51:15.060 Joseph McElroy: they change their algorithms yet again yeah, then you know, then you have to keep ahead of that so it’s not really escaping that that treadmill that we’ve all been on for a long time.

00:51:15.720 –> 00:51:16.320 Michal Suski: You know what.

00:51:17.430 –> 00:51:34.620 Michal Suski: There are algorithms that are bold began algorithms but, in fact, Google is rolling updates every day, the results are so volatile like what has changed in five years, five years ago there was an update once a year, or twice a year and that’s it.

00:51:34.890 –> 00:51:58.800 Michal Suski: yeah and now the results are so volatile that to be up to date, constantly you have to analyze the top pages every quarter or even every month in competitive niches to see if there’s anything new, that you should add to your content to stay on top and stay on the forefront.

00:52:00.000 –> 00:52:04.470 Joseph McElroy: Oh cool So what is the what’s the future for your product.

00:52:05.760 –> 00:52:06.810 Joseph McElroy: Your future plans.

00:52:08.130 –> 00:52:21.300 Michal Suski: So everyone on the web creates content with the tool that’s doesn’t go like to make it affordable for everyone like there’s a blogger, who writes a few pieces, a month.

00:52:21.570 –> 00:52:32.070 Michal Suski: Why can’t he get organic traffic why can’t he get or she get organic traffic does the goal, and it is combined with creating like we have a lot of.

00:52:32.640 –> 00:52:51.930 Michal Suski: breaks and we have to create some mortar to join them into one process that will take your domain from the place where it is right now and create a map, step by step, right these optimize that add internal links here and there, and it will take you to your ideal.

00:52:53.310 –> 00:52:59.370 Michal Suski: structure that the snowball effect is real so that’s the goal to democratize that knowledge.

00:53:00.120 –> 00:53:03.600 Joseph McElroy: So how do what’s your you are a real for surfer again.

00:53:04.500 –> 00:53:06.600 michalsuski: It’s surferseo.com.

00:53:06.960 –> 00:53:09.630 Joseph McElroy: surferseo.com and how do people follow you?

00:53:11.040 –> 00:53:30.210 Michal Suski:  I believe, on LinkedIn or on Facebook actually, I lost being private on Facebook already so it’s totally business tool for me, so you can feel free to add me as a friend on Facebook, I accept everyone because well that’s part of my job.

00:53:30.660 –> 00:53:38.580 Joseph McElroy: and your name is spelled M I C H A L S U S K I so if somebody wants to look you up until you I can find you there.

00:53:39.720 –> 00:53:41.880 Joseph McElroy: cool, thank you for being on our show.

00:53:43.050 –> 00:53:49.050 Joseph McElroy: After this, we’re actually we’re going to film a DEMO of the tool and we’re going to put that up on YouTube.

00:53:49.410 –> 00:54:00.540 Joseph McElroy: So you can go to YouTube and look for wise content creates wealth channel and there will be a DEMO probably a week in about a week after this podcast so you can actually see a DEMO of the product.

00:54:01.980 –> 00:54:11.310 Joseph McElroy: I’m on the talkradio.NYC network, I would recommend that there are some really great shows on this network all live the one.

00:54:12.720 –> 00:54:24.480 Joseph McElroy: I think that precede This is called is by Jeremiah Fox and it’s called entrepreneurial web I think it’s a really great show to watch next time coming out early and listen to that.

00:54:25.050 –> 00:54:33.810 Joseph McElroy: Show I also read another podcast Gateway to the Smokies which demonstrates are interested in the destination, marketing, and markets of my resort.

00:54:34.470 –> 00:54:55.080 Joseph McElroy:  in the Smoky Mountains of North Carolina called the Meadowlark Motel my company is Galileo Tech Media, you can find out more about us and Galileotechmedia.com and we, we are very advanced wise content smart SEO team working on destination marketing,

00:54:56.100 –> 00:55:08.610 Joseph McElroy: Real Estate in multi-location businesses, you can find this podcast on wisecontentcreateswealth.com it’s streamed live on talkradio. nyc.

00:55:09.180 –> 00:55:25.140 Joseph McElroy: The zoom chat the zoom with the video is also streamed live on Facebook, both on the talkradio.nyc Facebook page and facebook.com/wise contentcreateswealth Facebook page and every week.

00:55:25.770 –> 00:55:31.950 Joseph McElroy: Fridays from one to two we have another episode, I look forward to seeing you

00:55:33.060 –> 00:55:40.320 Joseph McElroy: Being here next week to provide you with some more interesting insights into wise content, thank you very much.

00:55:41.250 –> 00:55:41.610 Michal Suski:  Thank you.