About this Episode:

In this episode, Joseph is joined by our special guest Mike Grehan, Former CMO & Managing Director at Acronym, SEO pioneer, author, world-traveler, and keynote speaker, Champagne connoisseur, and consummate drinking partner to the global digital marketing community. Former publisher of SearchEngineWatch.com and ClickZ.com, and producer of the industry’s largest search and social marketing event, SES Conference & Expo.

You will learn from this episode the differences between structured and unstructured data, and how the content you create is unstructured data, and you can implement this content with structured data.

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Joseph introduces his guest, Mike Grehan, a CEO and digital marketing expert, they discuss Mike’s former career in the entertainment industry as a DJ, and how he transitioned to digital marketing. Mike explains how content is the most important aspect of any business, especially in the entertainment industry, as business’s customers come back for the content, not the ads and coding of the website. Joseph and Mike discuss the wise content strategy of publishing books, as well as Mike’s journey of writing his own book about Search Engine Optimization (SEO). They also discuss the importance of learning how Google operates, and if one figures out how Google operates, they can best use Google to promote their business and their products. Mike also explains how the book has affected his professional life, and how it launched him into prominence in the SEO industry and community.


Mike explains the difference between information retrieval and data retrieval, how information retrieval is finding out about things, and data retrieval is finding the exact specific thing you’re looking for. Joseph and Mike discuss the differences between structured and unstructured data, and how the content you create is unstructured data, and you can implement this content with structured data. Mike explains how the academic field of information retrieval has been around for a long time, even when search engines and SEOs first came around. They also discuss on page optimization, and how with Google updates, this strategy is no longer viable, and now creators have to focus more on the content and optimizing that content in terms of an SEO perspective. The two discuss the E.A.T., experience, authority, and trust, as an SEO strategy, and Mike explains how E.A.T. is important when implementing unstructured data. Experience focuses on knowing your audience and catering to them, Authority focuses on earning credibility for you and your website, and Trust focuses on end user data.


Joseph and Mike discuss the best ways for people to use structured data on their website, which is an extra signal to Google to let them know what your content is about. Mike suggests Scheama.org as a resource to learn how to properly use and implement structured data on your website. The two also discuss more in depth what structured data is, and how best to make use of structure data to your benefit. Mike explains how if one gets the E.A.T. aspect of unstructured data correct, then Google will reward you with structured data, which leads to more engagement, which leads to more structured data polish for your website for Google. They discuss the importance of creating experiences with the content, and the future of the jobs of SEO specialists are that they now need to become content experience analysts.


Mike discusses how he would explain what SEO is to a CEO who doesn’t know what SEO is, even though in the modern-day most CEOs and CMOs do know the basics of SEO, but don’t understand the value of SEO. Mike also explains how many larger businesses were not prepared for the push for eCommerce due to the Covid-19 pandemic, which lead to more CEOs now understanding the value of SEO for their business. Also how Google has become very good at training the industry to do what Google wants them to. Joseph and Mike discuss the manuscripts that Mike has written for his upcoming books, and how people can connect to Mike with any questions. Joseph brings up BrightEdge as a resource for optimizing and polishing one’s wise content.


00:00:30.270 –> 00:00:39.990 Joseph McElroy: Hello thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of wise content creates well you’ve heard of that content is king wise content rules, the world.

00:00:40.350 –> 00:00:47.610 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about understanding how you can make and utilize wise content to improve your marketing and financial success.

00:00:48.180 –> 00:00:57.390 Joseph McElroy: I am Joseph Franklin McElroy and i’m a marketing technology expert was built a multimillion dollar company and i’m also an award winning content producer.

00:00:57.990 –> 00:01:06.030 Joseph McElroy: My company is Galileo tech media a leader in providing wise content for seo content marketing and digital PR.

00:01:06.570 –> 00:01:18.180 Joseph McElroy: Our wise content is content that incorporates semantic science behavioral science Ai and data to make marketing and promotional content or smart that converts better and get better rankings.

00:01:18.690 –> 00:01:32.580 Joseph McElroy: Catalonia works with companies both big and small recently we completed over 40,000 pieces of content for one big client in a year and, for another small client we completed a handful of articles, with dramatic increase for their e commerce sales.

00:01:33.060 –> 00:01:47.880 Joseph McElroy: our agenda today is content experience today’s guest is Mike rehab of a CMO and managing director of acronym an international search and performance marketing agency based in nyc.

00:01:48.240 –> 00:01:59.580 Joseph McElroy: Mike is seo pioneer author world traveler and keynote speaker champagne connoisseur and a consummate drinking partner to the global digital marketing Community Hello Mike.

00:02:01.590 –> 00:02:04.380 Joseph McElroy: Oh you’re you’re on mute.

00:02:07.320 –> 00:02:10.140 Mike Grehan: sorry about that was a great start anyway, was a perfect description.

00:02:11.940 –> 00:02:14.640 Mike Grehan: And when i’m on mute my wife says i’ve never sounded better.

00:02:17.670 –> 00:02:19.230 Joseph McElroy: suited music to our ears.

00:02:20.640 –> 00:02:21.570 Mike Grehan: Anyway, good to see you.

00:02:22.080 –> 00:02:34.710 Joseph McElroy: it’s good to see you i’m so I read that I read your bio that you are a popular DJ in the UK, before getting into digital marketing, that is quite a switch now how did that happen did that first group to help your second.

00:02:35.070 –> 00:02:45.420 Mike Grehan: wow yeah you taking me back some time yeah I mean I actually come from a kind of showbiz kind of family my father back in the day was.

00:02:46.080 –> 00:02:58.770 Mike Grehan: The first manager of a band called the animals big band bank and the 16th so I was kind of surrounded by music and long story short, I became about DJ club, DJ and then eventually ended up working in radio.

00:02:59.790 –> 00:03:16.890 Mike Grehan: And it was great I mean that wasn’t the the course I was actually you know at university studying my business degree for marketing and that’s what I was going to do, but the the the draw of the microphone and sitting on the radio.

00:03:18.510 –> 00:03:26.130 Mike Grehan: You know, became such a big attraction for me so anyway, I spent 10 years working in radio and TV and it’s still in my blood.

00:03:26.820 –> 00:03:35.790 Joseph McElroy: yeah I guess I got you started early that i’m creating content, which is you know sort of the world, the world as it exists today now right it’s.

00:03:35.940 –> 00:03:45.180 Mike Grehan: kind of interesting that you say that because every time I have a conversation about content, and you know it is like you know content is king, as you said before.

00:03:46.050 –> 00:03:53.760 Mike Grehan: But without content, you have nothing you have an empty channel, do you know what I mean so sometimes you know when I hear the term content marketing.

00:03:54.090 –> 00:04:01.410 Mike Grehan: And I think for a publisher content is not a tactical campaign it’s the product that’s what we’ve got.

00:04:01.860 –> 00:04:11.730 Mike Grehan: And yes, I do go back and I say, what do you think I was doing when I was working working in radio and TV people weren’t shooting in just to hear the ads you know you had to have content.

00:04:12.090 –> 00:04:17.910 Mike Grehan: So you know when you work in radio and TV and you’re doing this now you you’re not just thinking about.

00:04:18.120 –> 00:04:29.580 Mike Grehan: what’s my next web page going to be going to make a 32nd video you’re thinking what’s the content, going to be for the next five minutes, and then the next five minutes, and then the next five minutes and it’s in real time, you know.

00:04:29.940 –> 00:04:32.400 Mike Grehan: So uh yeah I learned a lot about.

00:04:32.910 –> 00:04:40.650 Mike Grehan: content and developing content and some of the things that we talked about now, we were doing back in the day I mean even back then we would do stuff.

00:04:40.950 –> 00:04:46.230 Mike Grehan: That was envisioned, as it were, that was recorded and yet you would still just use the audio track for.

00:04:46.770 –> 00:04:56.610 Mike Grehan: For radio and that kind of thing you know and everything got transcribed so kind of whatever was doing what I was doing back in the day and analog i’m kind of doing the same thing and digital now you know.

00:04:57.210 –> 00:05:04.440 Joseph McElroy: The service was podcast is transcribed and you cut out the video, you could have the audio use a bits and pieces you put it all over the place, I mean.

00:05:04.860 –> 00:05:12.810 Joseph McElroy: Once you do content it’s like all right now becomes this entity that now can be used in a million different ways so.

00:05:13.650 –> 00:05:24.510 Joseph McElroy: I you know you in terms of creating content is doesn’t just your DJ career you’re also a writer of books in fact you wrote the first book in search engine optimization I think it was called search engine marketing book.

00:05:25.260 –> 00:05:33.720 Joseph McElroy: Right, so one of my first guest Jerry Ashton has had his company explode because he wrote a book and it led to be.

00:05:35.400 –> 00:05:51.150 Joseph McElroy: A segment on john Oliver is HBO so boom, he was he was done so, I called you know that sort of analog world the tried and true wise content strategy time so that book have any other major impact on your career and your company.

00:05:51.900 –> 00:05:55.710 Mike Grehan: Absolutely yeah but not in the way that people tend to think.

00:05:56.730 –> 00:06:02.490 Mike Grehan: That the The interesting thing was I didn’t set out to write a book there was just so much bullshit whoops sorry.

00:06:04.050 –> 00:06:04.770 Joseph McElroy: But I think there’s.

00:06:07.080 –> 00:06:14.670 Mike Grehan: There was just so much this erroneous information back in the day that I thought I just wanted to put the record right.

00:06:15.810 –> 00:06:27.540 Mike Grehan: What I had done as I i’d written 22 years ago, believe it or not, i’d written something about search engine positioning the search engine optimization hadn’t been or the term hadn’t been invented, then you know.

00:06:27.990 –> 00:06:32.640 Mike Grehan: And there was just like a handful of people, you know doing this thing with search engines.

00:06:33.270 –> 00:06:45.060 Mike Grehan: And I realized that there was stuff that you could do with html and you could change the pages and keywords around, and you know basically spent a lot of time spanning early search engines before Google came around.

00:06:45.960 –> 00:06:52.770 Mike Grehan: But somebody who worked at an engineer that worked at search engine sent me a note one day and said I looked at the book and blah blah blah.

00:06:53.820 –> 00:07:06.360 Mike Grehan: But really you need to read this so he sent me a book about information retrieval about the science of information retrieval and I became hooked on that and that’s basically the underlined science of what happens at Google.

00:07:06.750 –> 00:07:12.120 Mike Grehan: And the more than I learned about that the more I realized, the more you understand what it is that google’s trying to do.

00:07:12.570 –> 00:07:26.880 Mike Grehan: The better it is for you to create the content and make it easier for them to access that content so yeah that was actually the second book it ended up just being called search engine marketing because that term is just being kind, and I wanted to own it, so I did.

00:07:27.870 –> 00:07:28.230 Mike Grehan: But it was.

00:07:28.680 –> 00:07:35.520 Mike Grehan: But it was basically a book about search engine optimization and the underlying science of information retrieval.

00:07:36.660 –> 00:07:42.960 Mike Grehan: Did how did it affect me it affected me in many ways it became such a big seller, in a sense, around the world.

00:07:43.680 –> 00:07:51.000 Mike Grehan: Not that you can you know afford to buy a yacht and retire, on the strength of a business book, but it was a first of its kind.

00:07:51.900 –> 00:08:02.880 Mike Grehan: The two things that happened, I actually created an e book version of it and people were saying you know who’s ever going to read an e book on a monitor and I was like.

00:08:04.890 –> 00:08:06.870 Mike Grehan: that’s why it was great when the kindle came around you.

00:08:06.870 –> 00:08:07.230 know.

00:08:08.580 –> 00:08:17.190 Mike Grehan: But, so what how did it affect me from a professional point of view i’d always done some public speaking and coming from a broadcast background.

00:08:18.420 –> 00:08:25.920 Mike Grehan: You know it wasn’t something that was new to me, but I started getting invited to speak at conferences all over the world, on the strength of the book, you know.

00:08:26.400 –> 00:08:39.780 Mike Grehan: And I was traveling backwards and forwards so much to the US hey and just moving here, you know so so yeah even though you can tell by might not so native brooklyn accent, I am actually based.

00:08:40.830 –> 00:08:47.340 Mike Grehan: Here, my office as you, as you mentioned before, in New York by offices on the 65th floor of the empire state building oh.

00:08:48.300 –> 00:08:49.650 Joseph McElroy: takes you places right.

00:08:49.740 –> 00:08:55.740 Mike Grehan: I absolutely yeah so it’s affected my career in the sense, but you know I mean i’ve been living eating and breathing this.

00:08:56.700 –> 00:09:05.010 Mike Grehan: This industry from from day one, and i’ve been very lucky in the sense that not only did I write that first book that I became.

00:09:05.850 –> 00:09:20.610 Mike Grehan: A regular feature at search engine watch, which was the big first you know kind of website where the Community could go and read about what was going on in the industry and click Z and then eventually I ended up actually as the publisher.

00:09:20.790 –> 00:09:38.400 Mike Grehan: Of search engine watching click Z and running, what was the the largest search marketing conference search and social as it became which was fcs conference and Expo and then I became Chairman of the global trade association so i’m sorry it took most of your show just doing my.

00:09:40.020 –> 00:09:49.770 Joseph McElroy: want to talk about the reason is that you’re an author and you were you know, had some great success with an author, but in 2013 you were interviewed by Andy bets right.

00:09:51.270 –> 00:09:52.800 Joseph McElroy: Oh yeah right.

00:09:53.100 –> 00:09:53.790 Mike Grehan: Right edge.

00:09:53.880 –> 00:10:00.780 Joseph McElroy: And he was asked you about content and authorship importance to seo and you said getting back to authorship I don’t think.

00:10:01.200 –> 00:10:13.050 Joseph McElroy: it’s actually to do with the guy that writes the piece, and who has the most Twitter followers I don’t think it’s about the number one writer in the industry, the number one blogger, I actually think it’s more about the sole source, which is the author.

00:10:14.460 –> 00:10:30.360 Joseph McElroy: I wrote a paper a bit years giving information to retrieve them citation analysis after digging digging deeper it what’s the parents of the is that the source of where the publication is what is really matters do you think i’ll just authorship is dying.

00:10:32.100 –> 00:10:40.080 Mike Grehan: You know so just to get the context of what Andy and I were talking about, then I think that people thought this author tag that you could put it in there that.

00:10:40.080 –> 00:10:40.230 If.

00:10:41.280 –> 00:10:42.480 Mike Grehan: A guy that.

00:10:42.510 –> 00:10:51.990 Mike Grehan: You would get better recognition with Google and he would get some better ranking the point that I was making there is that it’s not like you know if you’re.

00:10:52.410 –> 00:10:57.750 Mike Grehan: Joseph frank and McElroy and you’ve got your show going on, and all of these followers on Twitter.

00:10:58.050 –> 00:11:03.060 Mike Grehan: That, if the author tag says that it’s you on that particular page that Google is going to pay any attention.

00:11:03.300 –> 00:11:12.480 Mike Grehan: To what your prominence is in social media it’s actually how many people are consuming the content that you create through Google itself, you know.

00:11:12.870 –> 00:11:26.040 Mike Grehan: And then, when you create this what people know as an authority in that first book, I wrote explained what hubs and authorities where the modern authority was and that’s why linking is so important, so.

00:11:27.090 –> 00:11:29.400 Mike Grehan: You know you end up with the fact that.

00:11:31.020 –> 00:11:38.220 Mike Grehan: That let’s go back to search engine watch when I was publisher of search engine watch we had 300 authors, we had 300 people.

00:11:38.640 –> 00:11:49.110 Mike Grehan: writing for search engine watch and they did remarkably well, they were great writers, but the reason that we did so well with Google is search engine watch as a source.

00:11:49.500 –> 00:11:50.820 Mike Grehan: was a recognized.

00:11:50.850 –> 00:11:54.150 Mike Grehan: authority within the industry, you know so.

00:11:55.230 –> 00:11:58.410 Joseph McElroy: So that sense the publication become the author.

00:11:58.500 –> 00:11:59.490 Mike Grehan: Absolutely, and that.

00:11:59.640 –> 00:12:00.000 Joseph McElroy: sort of.

00:12:00.060 –> 00:12:07.290 Mike Grehan: The publication as prestige and and and I did this experimenting with some of our top riders you know I would say.

00:12:07.590 –> 00:12:14.850 Mike Grehan: you’re right the post and publish it on your own blog and then we’ll publish it on search engine watch and see what happens and search engine watch.

00:12:15.270 –> 00:12:29.430 Mike Grehan: You know they always got a better deal out of it being published and search engine watch and that’s because of the authority of the reputation and the trust, most importantly, that, then you know the domains create for themselves online.

00:12:29.850 –> 00:12:37.530 Joseph McElroy: Okay, well, we have to take a break, so when we get back we’ll talk more about authority and expertise, and all these other wonderful.

00:15:37.350 –> 00:15:46.110 Joseph McElroy: hi this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the wise contact creates wealth podcasts and my guest Mike Graham I Mike.

00:15:46.980 –> 00:15:47.670 Mike Grehan: And again.

00:15:47.880 –> 00:15:59.400 Joseph McElroy: Yes, so I was you send me that video have your recent a recent presentation to Sydney search on it and I thought it was really fascinating yeah.

00:16:00.810 –> 00:16:08.400 Joseph McElroy: And you were talking about the difference between structured and unstructured data, but you started out with your favorite topic which is information retrieval.

00:16:09.420 –> 00:16:18.120 Joseph McElroy: And you really made a point of explaining the difference between information retrieval and data retrieval can you explain that to our armies.

00:16:19.410 –> 00:16:29.130 Mike Grehan: yeah I mean structured data has become so important now in seo but the notion, the idea of it has been around for for a long time, you know.

00:16:30.330 –> 00:16:37.470 Mike Grehan: But in order to be able to try and explain the difference between.

00:16:37.920 –> 00:16:54.450 Mike Grehan: The World Wide Web which is just a sea of unstructured data, you know no two websites really are the same content is entirely different it’s very, very difficult to analyze unstructured data and try and make some sense of it google’s been very good at doing that you know.

00:16:55.530 –> 00:17:07.470 Mike Grehan: But to understand the difference between unstructured data and structured data, you really need to know the difference between information retrieval and data retrieval so that’s why I started there because the two entirely different things.

00:17:07.950 –> 00:17:28.740 Mike Grehan: So with information retrieval just keeping it simple information retrieval as a science is finding out about things, so you know, one of the examples that I gave using keywords in that particular presentation was that if you type the words fish and tank fish tank at Google yeah.

00:17:29.760 –> 00:17:38.520 Mike Grehan: If you only looked at the keywords and nothing else, and then look for documents that had those two words you would find some rusty old fish tank somewhere.

00:17:38.820 –> 00:17:46.980 Mike Grehan: Which is probably not the best experience what you wouldn’t see as a tropical fish aquarium which is probably what you’re looking for maybe that’s a beautiful video with.

00:17:47.340 –> 00:17:52.410 Mike Grehan: tropical fish in it so google’s become very good at using keyword expansion techniques.

00:17:52.740 –> 00:18:00.270 Mike Grehan: To say and understanding intent the guy said fish tank but, most people who type that actually really want to see a tropical fish aquarium you know.

00:18:00.570 –> 00:18:09.570 Mike Grehan: So information retrieval is finding out about things and that’s why entities has become such a big deal in information retrieval whereas data retrieval.

00:18:10.260 –> 00:18:19.140 Mike Grehan: is highly structured and you know you just don’t think about your operating system about windows, or whether you’re on a MAC it’s all about precise.

00:18:19.410 –> 00:18:26.850 Mike Grehan: Things being registered in certain places being filed in certain places, and not only that usually with data retrieval.

00:18:27.450 –> 00:18:33.660 Mike Grehan: At a large scale you using serious programming languages, they usually you know programmers.

00:18:34.260 –> 00:18:48.690 Mike Grehan: That retrieving data, and it is completely precise, so the major difference is that the unstructured data is finding out about things and data retrieval is the exact specific thing you know.

00:18:49.350 –> 00:18:59.220 Mike Grehan: And the reason that it’s become so important is that, again, there is this pervasive thing that people assume that Google has access to everything on the World Wide Web.

00:18:59.580 –> 00:19:08.340 Mike Grehan: And yet the World Wide Web is absolutely massive and it grows still exponentially every single day, it has since day one, you know.

00:19:08.850 –> 00:19:15.210 Mike Grehan: So, even though Google had the best of intentions of crawling the World Wide Web and bringing the world’s information together.

00:19:15.630 –> 00:19:20.940 Mike Grehan: They realized pretty soon that this was never going to happen, particularly with the protocol that they use.

00:19:21.360 –> 00:19:31.440 Mike Grehan: And I think I mentioned, you know, Google has seen like sub X trillion URLs if they tried to crawl them all, it would take so long we’d all be dead by the time they got.

00:19:32.190 –> 00:19:41.490 Mike Grehan: To the last one so what’s that got to do with structured data and mentioned that the notion of this has been around for a long time that Google continues to crawl the web.

00:19:41.820 –> 00:19:49.170 Mike Grehan: crawl the most popular areas where the most popular content is and that’s The important thing, Google doesn’t like to return content following.

00:19:49.920 –> 00:19:57.030 Mike Grehan: A query if people don’t want to see it and they can tell if you don’t click on it, or if you don’t like the page those kinds of things you know.

00:19:57.570 –> 00:20:05.460 Mike Grehan: So they’re good at maintaining a fresh index trying to bring fresh content in at the same time.

00:20:05.910 –> 00:20:20.430 Mike Grehan: But if we were able to send data directly to them in a structured fashion, to say something has changed here, then it makes that job, a lot easier, so, if you look at the way that we’re using structured data now it’s not just.

00:20:21.870 –> 00:20:28.260 Mike Grehan: You know some of the primary examples that Google uses I like if you have a website that does recipes you know if you use structured data.

00:20:29.040 –> 00:20:39.060 Mike Grehan: When people do a search for cookie recipes then instead of just seeing a link to go to the website you’ll see at the top of the page, these are the cookies he has the recipe.

00:20:39.300 –> 00:20:46.560 Mike Grehan: You know, this is what it contains this is good for you this is bad for you, those kinds of things, but they’ve also reached the point now with.

00:20:47.400 –> 00:20:54.000 Mike Grehan: You know websites that are promoting events and lot of things that are happening live, so you could put times and dates in.

00:20:54.390 –> 00:21:01.710 Mike Grehan: So you create the content, the unstructured data and then you augment that with a structured data saying we’re open now we’re close now.

00:21:02.040 –> 00:21:08.940 Mike Grehan: The concert starts at this time, you know the show starts at this time, these kinds of things, so I think it’s going to be very important for.

00:21:09.420 –> 00:21:16.950 Mike Grehan: seos and you know, one of the areas that will touch on is you know the term seo about search engine optimization.

00:21:17.220 –> 00:21:25.440 Mike Grehan: i’m not saying that’s dead it’s going away, but the job itself is changing, much more than understanding more about the content and actually creating the content.

00:21:25.830 –> 00:21:34.530 Mike Grehan: So understanding the unstructured data as a content creator and also how to feed structured data as a content creator is becoming very important.

00:21:35.070 –> 00:21:45.990 Joseph McElroy: So you know you’re touching on this, but it’s all it’s all about experience, and I think you started with the page experience right is is pretty important now right.

00:21:47.640 –> 00:21:54.360 Mike Grehan: But it’s kind of interesting that google’s having this update and they’ve talked to whine about the the idea of page experience, but again.

00:21:55.230 –> 00:22:05.340 Mike Grehan: You know, and I had to keep repeating this over and over again, if you study information retrieval if you study that science it’s something that academically the idea of this has been around for quite some time.

00:22:06.720 –> 00:22:14.160 Mike Grehan: You know a lot of being learned in if I take a step back and say before you had paid search for instance.

00:22:14.970 –> 00:22:23.700 Mike Grehan: Before that started Google had already learned at search engines had already learned a great deal about end user behavior just looking at the organic listings.

00:22:24.000 –> 00:22:27.570 Mike Grehan: On what content people liked or didn’t like there’s so much that they could.

00:22:27.990 –> 00:22:32.700 Mike Grehan: learn through the analytics and then, when they started doing paid search.

00:22:32.970 –> 00:22:41.940 Mike Grehan: They started applying some of that to the ads which ads to people like which ads do they not like, which is why you got what they call a quality score in paid search.

00:22:42.270 –> 00:22:48.300 Mike Grehan: So what they’re doing now with page experience is pretty much a similar kind of thing is bringing it back to the organic side.

00:22:48.600 –> 00:22:59.400 Mike Grehan: and saying there are certain elements that need to be on this page, you know there’s certain aspects of the way that you create the content, the way that the content is distributed.

00:22:59.730 –> 00:23:13.110 Mike Grehan: And also, how does the content, apply to the intent of the searcher in the first place, you know so when they talk about page experience that was nothing new to me, as I said, you know just a little while earlier.

00:23:14.550 –> 00:23:21.750 Mike Grehan: that there was a period in time that you could do, on page optimization and I could beat your page by tweaking a few tags and things.

00:23:22.020 –> 00:23:28.500 Mike Grehan: That doesn’t work anymore, at the end of the day, Google is looking at, who is consuming who is looking at your webpage who’s reading it.

00:23:28.770 –> 00:23:37.110 Mike Grehan: Who is looking at your sports scores, who is looking at your 32nd video who’s reading your hundred and 50 page PDF document.

00:23:37.440 –> 00:23:46.320 Mike Grehan: Whatever it is you know and then understanding the intent, so I think you have to you know we reach a point now where I talk more about the content experience analyst.

00:23:46.770 –> 00:23:53.040 Mike Grehan: At which point on the user journey is the best experience, going to be and the experience is not about.

00:23:53.970 –> 00:24:05.160 Mike Grehan: Engagement How long do I engage with the content as i’ve mentioned many times before you know if you’re the weather channel and somebody says what’s the weather in New York oh it’s like 15 degrees, or something.

00:24:05.550 –> 00:24:12.420 Mike Grehan: Whatever it is that’s point eight have a second to a lot of people that would be a bounce on a page to the weather channel that’s a great result yeah.

00:24:13.800 –> 00:24:14.640 Joseph McElroy: So.

00:24:15.840 –> 00:24:23.010 Joseph McElroy: So if somebody’s listening, you know that maybe it’s a little bit of digital savvy this but doesn’t know a lot about it, you know.

00:24:23.400 –> 00:24:39.630 Joseph McElroy: Would would the concept and eat and you mentioned this in your presentation experience, expertise authority and trust me a good approach to for them to you know, try to make their content, have better experiences for their for their for their audience.

00:24:40.920 –> 00:24:51.660 Mike Grehan: So again, you know it sounds like a broken record, but the eat acronym that’s that is coming around it’s good you know, Google quality raters is.

00:24:52.320 –> 00:25:01.680 Mike Grehan: You know, there are I don’t know if people know this Google does mostly everything by automation but they have thousands and thousands of quality raters people who are employed.

00:25:02.430 –> 00:25:11.070 Mike Grehan: In the gig economy, mainly you know with the guidebook just to go and have a look at google’s just have human eyes on google’s results and make sure that.

00:25:11.340 –> 00:25:20.850 Mike Grehan: That the machine is getting it right that people are getting the right kind of experience and one of the best ways to explain something that’s been around an information retrieval science for a long time.

00:25:21.780 –> 00:25:29.820 Mike Grehan: was to use that acronym so they came up with eat, which was experience or authority and trust and what I was saying in that presentation for Australia.

00:25:30.240 –> 00:25:39.390 Mike Grehan: Is that you really have to have those in place that’s the unstructured data really you need to have that in place before the structured data is going to kick in.

00:25:39.870 –> 00:25:48.120 Mike Grehan: So the experience part of it when it when you look at the the page is down to are you an expert in the field.

00:25:48.810 –> 00:26:02.370 Mike Grehan: And then, this, so this is an interesting thing when you creating content, because people say you know you have to write like an expert and then people go wow like I have to be Einstein no you just have to know your own stuff that’s it.

00:26:02.640 –> 00:26:05.280 Mike Grehan: that’s the whole point and I think you know when people talk about.

00:26:05.280 –> 00:26:11.100 Mike Grehan: expertise and authority and trust and it’s like holy I have to go through this like ritual of stuff.

00:26:11.580 –> 00:26:23.340 Mike Grehan: and basically it’s about understanding your audience, what does the audience want to hear now you credible, so the stuff that you write on your web page or you create in your video or whichever way you choose to present the content.

00:26:25.230 –> 00:26:36.960 Mike Grehan: People have to know well, this guy knows his stuff I really enjoy reading it, and whether it’s you know nonfiction or fiction, whatever it is that the whole point of getting the.

00:26:38.190 –> 00:26:43.410 Mike Grehan: authority and that word has been around for a long time and again I explained this.

00:26:43.740 –> 00:26:53.850 Mike Grehan: Is you can’t get authority by just writing on a page i’m an expert so read my stuff and you’ll discover i’m an expert anybody can write anything with a web page and say anything about themselves.

00:26:54.210 –> 00:27:06.420 Mike Grehan: But in order to be an expert, that is something that’s usually bestowed upon you, you know you earn that credibility kind of thing and in the first instance, when you’re creating content for your website.

00:27:07.410 –> 00:27:11.520 Mike Grehan: You and the credibility by other people with other websites who link to you.

00:27:12.090 –> 00:27:24.390 Mike Grehan: You know, you know when Joseph when you write something for your website at Galileo tech and i’m a guy in the industry now go wow that’s really cool so I linked to you what i’m saying is I give a vote to your content.

00:27:24.720 –> 00:27:32.910 Mike Grehan: And the more people that give you that vote, the more it becomes obvious that you do have authority that you are recognized in your industry, you know.

00:27:33.300 –> 00:27:41.220 Mike Grehan: But the trust factor, the final part the trust factor is what I was saying that’s the end user data, you know you created i’m the expert I wrote.

00:27:41.760 –> 00:27:52.890 Mike Grehan: Some great stuff about wise content mike’s linking to me other people are linking to me now google’s actually paying attention to this, but what it’s going to pay more attention to is who’s consuming it who’s reading it.

00:27:53.220 –> 00:28:04.590 Mike Grehan: And if it becomes with the hit with the end user again your trust for that domain is building all of the time as that domain, being a good resource for trustworthy content, you know.

00:28:05.100 –> 00:28:07.230 Joseph McElroy: All right, great, so I think.

00:28:08.400 –> 00:28:12.450 Joseph McElroy: it’s important we take a break now and come back and continue talking about structured data.

00:28:14.430 –> 00:28:15.570 Joseph McElroy: decorating results.

00:28:15.810 –> 00:28:16.170 cool.

00:31:04.170 –> 00:31:12.210 Joseph McElroy: hi this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with wise content creates wealth podcasts and my guest Mike Graham so Mike.

00:31:13.710 –> 00:31:30.780 Joseph McElroy: You know, we talked about structured data and you gave us, I think a pretty good description of it, what are ways that are the most important ways for people to use structured data on their on their web pages and what does it mean to the goo cause a decorating the results.

00:31:33.840 –> 00:31:40.410 Mike Grehan: yeah I mean it’s it’s it’s somewhat more how to to discuss the structured data aspect, without getting deep in the weeds i’ll.

00:31:40.770 –> 00:31:49.620 Mike Grehan: try and keep it as simple as I can you know I mean when you’re creating a web page and you’re creating a wordpress website you don’t really know what’s going underneath you know so people without.

00:31:50.310 –> 00:32:01.560 Mike Grehan: Technical experience usually with you know wordpress and templates and that kind of thing can create the content there’s a little bit more involved when it comes down to the structured data and actually being able to put it in there.

00:32:02.520 –> 00:32:12.690 Mike Grehan: But like I said before, it’s kind of an extra signal to Google to let them know much more about what your content is about you know, giving us a better indication that.

00:32:12.900 –> 00:32:23.550 Mike Grehan: This website really is about cookies and it’s not the ones that follow you around on the web it’s the ones the kids love to eat, and these are the ingredients that go in it, you know so it’s a much better way of being able to give.

00:32:24.270 –> 00:32:29.280 Mike Grehan: A strong signal to to Google, I mean in terms of how you put it there.

00:32:30.450 –> 00:32:37.770 Mike Grehan: Like a safe from a technical point of view, there are tags that you can inject the data into your existing html and.

00:32:38.430 –> 00:32:48.120 Mike Grehan: Basically, it needs to go on the page, so I think for anybody who wants to do it themselves, and you can do you know I mean you can learn to do that, then you need to go to schema.org.

00:32:48.750 –> 00:32:58.470 Mike Grehan: Which is the general purpose website to do with structured data, you know and to be perfectly honest, Google has.

00:32:59.490 –> 00:33:09.750 Mike Grehan: They become very open about the better effect that you can have the better experience that you can create for the end user, by using structured data.

00:33:10.020 –> 00:33:17.040 Mike Grehan: And so, yes, they do actually use the word decorate So what does that mean you know when I first started in this industry.

00:33:17.580 –> 00:33:25.530 Mike Grehan: You would go to a search engine and there are quite a few before Google, but let’s just say we know when Google started, you would do a search would get 10 blue links.

00:33:25.950 –> 00:33:32.970 Mike Grehan: And that was it and you would decide which one to click on and one of them might have something you’re interested in and the rest of it Mike terrible you know.

00:33:33.840 –> 00:33:45.840 Mike Grehan: It took a little while and then, of course, what happened is you got what was called universal search and then eventually the results started look different because they had you know images and news results and.

00:33:46.260 –> 00:33:53.820 Mike Grehan: and video and that kind of thing what they’ve been able to do with structured data understanding more about the content and the source.

00:33:54.120 –> 00:33:59.250 Mike Grehan: is to give it more prominence so when they call a decorated that means you know when you look when you do a search.

00:33:59.460 –> 00:34:11.040 Mike Grehan: And you look at the top of the results, page at Google and there’s a carousel with all of these images going around that’s being driven by the structured data by the images that you’ve supplied and what they know.

00:34:11.910 –> 00:34:21.900 Mike Grehan: You know, when you end up in the knowledge box, you know when you’re answering the question and that turns up at the very top, so all of this information that you can provide it helps.

00:34:22.860 –> 00:34:33.510 Mike Grehan: You know when when when they talk about what’s known as the knowledge graph which is these entities around the world, so if you’re searching for people and places and.

00:34:34.020 –> 00:34:44.190 Mike Grehan: Events and those kinds of things you get those better results, because they literally are better decorated you know they’re more prominent there are more images in there.

00:34:44.670 –> 00:34:52.110 Mike Grehan: They will use your logo was interesting to hear one of google’s engineers saying recently that when they were looking at structured data.

00:34:52.800 –> 00:35:05.520 Mike Grehan: Sometimes one of the problems that companies have is they don’t supply a good quality logo and, for me, when I was hearing that I was like you know, years ago, we were trying to force you to show our logo and now you’re asking for a better quality version.

00:35:07.080 –> 00:35:09.120 Mike Grehan: Yes, it is a big decorated is just.

00:35:09.360 –> 00:35:15.570 Mike Grehan: kind of looking at the top of the page and those results that that are somewhat more prominent that’s being driven by the structured.

00:35:15.570 –> 00:35:16.020 data.

00:35:17.040 –> 00:35:21.810 Joseph McElroy: I mean the way they make it sound it sounds like you know they want it to be, you know about enhancing the results.

00:35:22.260 –> 00:35:28.560 Joseph McElroy: Do you think it actually helps the rankings us he is an example that you got to do everything right beforehand.

00:35:28.890 –> 00:35:38.820 Joseph McElroy: But i’m wondering i’m starting to see anecdotal and we’ve done some testing that some things that you do in structured data to actually enhance your search engine positions, what do you think about that.

00:35:39.870 –> 00:35:49.650 Mike Grehan: it’s kind of this mutually reinforcing thing you know I mean i’ll stick to what I was saying before the methodology because i’ve used it for so long is that if you get the easy part right the unstructured data part right.

00:35:50.130 –> 00:35:56.970 Mike Grehan: If you if your website is actually building up a good reputation that you’re creating good content, then Google will reward you.

00:35:57.450 –> 00:36:04.140 Mike Grehan: With this structured data if Google can see what people like this, we can present that better in the search engine results page.

00:36:05.040 –> 00:36:10.950 Mike Grehan: And then, what happens then is you attract more clicks you get more engagement with your content.

00:36:11.280 –> 00:36:20.340 Mike Grehan: And the more engagement that you get the more that Google realizes this is, you know it’s implicit signal to Google that people enjoy this content.

00:36:20.670 –> 00:36:33.630 Mike Grehan: So the more content you create the better you get decorated the better you get decorated the more engagement that you get you know, so it is a mutually reinforcing thing, but just to be clear and you and I could arm wrestle over this, if you want.

00:36:33.810 –> 00:36:34.230 All right.

00:36:35.520 –> 00:36:35.910 Mike Grehan: That.

00:36:36.060 –> 00:36:45.900 Mike Grehan: That, if you don’t actually you couldn’t take a you know, a new website create some content that’s you know kind of Okay, and then inject structured data into.

00:36:45.900 –> 00:36:47.460 Mike Grehan: Your rank you know.

00:36:47.970 –> 00:36:53.610 Joseph McElroy: No, I agree with you there but i’m wondering if you have a decent site and you do things like.

00:36:54.540 –> 00:37:03.090 Joseph McElroy: You know, and it is, I think, like you’ve mentioned several times here become really important, I think i’m more, and so, and they sort of have a authority that.

00:37:03.840 –> 00:37:13.440 Joseph McElroy: That the search engines have given them, even to the point where you have particular phrases sort of having entity right and it’s like if you search for you know.

00:37:13.980 –> 00:37:27.000 Joseph McElroy: Particular you know phrase you know way to describe something you know coffee or you know or whatever the you know coffee coffee, you know brand or coffee type or.

00:37:27.300 –> 00:37:39.510 Joseph McElroy: i’m not using a great example here, but essentially they have an entity, they say, is the way this is mostly referred to right as opposed to it’s not so pizza is an entity, and it means.

00:37:40.020 –> 00:37:47.400 Joseph McElroy: that people are looking for pizza delivery right so it’s got sort of a pseudo entity but anyway, the thing i’m.

00:37:48.300 –> 00:37:56.940 Joseph McElroy: You know i’m thinking is the entities and I ended up with a lot of people this, but if you do things like same as in your content and you got a good site.

00:37:57.420 –> 00:38:10.260 Joseph McElroy: It seems that that where you there’s a schema that says same as that points yep yeah authority that to something else that another entity as authority that I think that helps, what do you think is, do you think that as possible.

00:38:11.130 –> 00:38:17.490 Mike Grehan: So again, that the terms become interchangeable you know we talked about structured data and schema but.

00:38:18.270 –> 00:38:25.260 Mike Grehan: Originally the idea for what Google is trying to create as this second layer on top of the unstructured data.

00:38:25.860 –> 00:38:33.420 Mike Grehan: was coined by a certain Ben as Lee, who was the guy who invented the World Wide Web and he called it, the semantic Web.

00:38:34.020 –> 00:38:42.600 Mike Grehan: So if you take a look and see what semantic web is like this overarching term where you get structured data and schema and all of those other things underneath.

00:38:42.900 –> 00:38:45.450 Mike Grehan: And instead of looking at the data what Google says.

00:38:45.750 –> 00:38:59.760 Mike Grehan: Instead of looking at strings of data we look at things so they say things not string So what are the things people places events those kinds of things that all linked together, so I think once you are in involved in.

00:39:00.060 –> 00:39:09.570 Mike Grehan: Creating information around an entity, then it does become part of this semantic web it’s another it’s kind of like you know what I was saying before about linking.

00:39:09.990 –> 00:39:18.990 Mike Grehan: You know one thing leads to another so yeah there is actually there is a natural effect there, I just want to keep going back to the fact that.

00:39:21.060 –> 00:39:39.510 Mike Grehan: That you really you have to think through what is it that my audience wants and understand the content and the experience that somebody is looking for so without going too far, the tangent there is a big difference in the search engine results between ranking and sorting okay.

00:39:39.780 –> 00:39:51.180 Mike Grehan: These are two different things Okay, so, as I said before, when we move beyond the 10 blue links and we went into universal with different types of results in them.

00:39:52.350 –> 00:40:03.270 Mike Grehan: If you take a look at those results you can’t say if if Joseph has a video at number six and i’m at number seven with a web page.

00:40:03.660 –> 00:40:15.360 Mike Grehan: Can you get the seo guy to make my webpage get higher than his video know you can only rank pages against pages and videos against videos it’s an apple and oranges thing, so what I have to do is create a better video.

00:40:15.660 –> 00:40:26.100 Mike Grehan: Because that’s the whole point so understanding the content experience that for that particular keyword or phrase you’re doing better with the video than I am with a web page.

00:40:26.340 –> 00:40:39.090 Mike Grehan: Then it says that the end user prefers the video result than the webpage so now, I have to create the video to go with it so that’s why I keep talking about creating the experience it goes with yeah.

00:40:39.660 –> 00:40:42.390 Joseph McElroy: So you say that yeah.

00:40:43.530 –> 00:40:52.680 Joseph McElroy: As seos now go start changing to be called content experience analysts, will you think that’s happening now right and what do you think the job will be.

00:40:53.370 –> 00:41:01.590 Mike Grehan: um I mean it’s it does so, if you just go back to the very early days like a Sam you know, I was in at the very, very beginning and.

00:41:02.100 –> 00:41:10.650 Mike Grehan: I was never a fan of the idea of this thing search engine optimization I never liked the frank is i’ve been in the industry there’s long, I never met anybody who’s optimized a search engine.

00:41:11.970 –> 00:41:18.870 Mike Grehan: search engine optimizer they didn’t you know I just don’t get it, I mean what we actually do it from day one is optimized content.

00:41:19.110 –> 00:41:28.800 Mike Grehan: For Google where content optimizes that’s where you that we don’t optimize search engines, you know it’s always been about the content that’s the whole thing.

00:41:29.760 –> 00:41:40.860 Mike Grehan: But I honestly do think now that when you understand intent and the queries that people use, particularly on the commercial level, so what we talked about is the.

00:41:41.670 –> 00:41:49.170 Mike Grehan: The customer journey yeah the customer doesn’t wake up in the morning with a credit card gone they’ve got a credit card i’m going to buy something and go straight to the checkout.

00:41:49.590 –> 00:42:00.480 Mike Grehan: yeah it usually starts informational then it goes navigational and then it becomes transactional so creating the content around the intent, so that the informational stage.

00:42:00.840 –> 00:42:12.330 Mike Grehan: I see a different thing when it comes to the navigational thing and that you’re not always trying to sell me something one of my other you know kind of top raises stop selling start helping so.

00:42:12.900 –> 00:42:22.980 Mike Grehan: yeah it isn’t going to change, I think some of the the technical stuff that seo was really based on because the crawler was a bit of a stupid piece of.

00:42:23.700 –> 00:42:35.010 Mike Grehan: Software back in the day crawling as much smarter, so we don’t have to spend so much time looking at you know the technical issues with is my context the content being called an indexed.

00:42:35.370 –> 00:42:36.240 Mike Grehan: Google actually.

00:42:36.270 –> 00:42:51.600 Mike Grehan: gives you a lot of tips about that at the end of the day, it’s more about am I, creating content that creates the right experience that moves people along the line from this informational stage to the checkout to the transaction, you know.

00:42:52.200 –> 00:43:00.240 Joseph McElroy: I think that’s I think that I agree with you 100% of that that’s what i’ve been focusing on wise content that you know as as.

00:43:00.300 –> 00:43:00.840 Mike Grehan: Absolute.

00:43:00.930 –> 00:43:02.100 Joseph McElroy: Where we’re going so.

00:43:02.250 –> 00:43:10.110 Joseph McElroy: we’ll come back have a couple of little a business questions for you, and then i’ll be wrapping up with with some will be wrapping up with some shout outs all right all right.

00:45:26.970 –> 00:45:33.750 Joseph McElroy: hello, this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with wise content creates wealth, the podcast and My guess Mike.

00:45:34.770 –> 00:45:35.940 Joseph McElroy: So Mike we were.

00:45:37.380 –> 00:45:48.990 Joseph McElroy: We were discussing how we traditionally not didn’t sell to the C suite who didn’t know what seo is but starting to have this last year, the pandemic is brought up the importance of being in the organic results.

00:45:50.160 –> 00:45:53.940 Joseph McElroy: What do you tell a CEO who asked what is seo.

00:45:56.100 –> 00:45:57.690 Mike Grehan: yeah that’s a good question.

00:46:00.030 –> 00:46:03.570 Mike Grehan: I usually say read a book and I know a guy who wrote.

00:46:08.940 –> 00:46:18.270 Mike Grehan: I did, to be perfectly honest, I think you know CEO certainly CMOs with the larger brands larger companies these enterprise level.

00:46:19.560 –> 00:46:31.530 Mike Grehan: Companies understand kind of the basics of what seo is you know, in the sense that it’s it’s it’s doing stuff with content to get found on search engines to do a better job.

00:46:32.160 –> 00:46:41.850 Mike Grehan: I think the hardest thing is trying to explain the value because, like everybody else, and the C suite usually if you say it’s worth doing this there’s $1 sign.

00:46:42.150 –> 00:46:56.370 Mike Grehan: next to it and it’s very difficult for them to put $1 sign next to seo because you know, there are a number of conversations that i’ve had with the CEO or the CMO and I talked about organic.

00:46:57.210 –> 00:47:04.860 Mike Grehan: content and and you know the way it’s listed at Google and they go yeah but Google just sent you that for free don’t think no that’s not how it works.

00:47:07.470 –> 00:47:19.590 Mike Grehan: But yeah I mean just to sum up what you were saying in a last chat obviously last year was a difficult year for so many people, but the interesting thing is.

00:47:20.310 –> 00:47:29.190 Mike Grehan: Not that anybody was prepared for a pandemic, but it was how many of the larger brands were so unprepared to go E commerce to go online.

00:47:29.490 –> 00:47:38.580 Mike Grehan: I mean many of the world’s major brands are still making most of their revenue offline and then what they get online is kind of like a nice little bonus that goes with it.

00:47:38.970 –> 00:47:46.050 Mike Grehan: And then, when the pandemic comes around and your offline business goes man you’ve got to stop and think really quickly what am I going to do now.

00:47:46.380 –> 00:47:59.430 Mike Grehan: One of the things that I noticed was a lot of the smaller businesses and low tech companies not high tech companies, the low tech companies were much better prepared for e commerce and online than some of the larger companies.

00:47:59.760 –> 00:48:14.910 Mike Grehan: So what we see this year is that the CIO and the CMO both fully appreciate the fact that they weren’t ready for what happened last year, so to be better prepared they’re putting more money into seo so you know God bless the CEO and sometimes they see here.

00:48:15.840 –> 00:48:16.530 Mike Grehan: If it’s not.

00:48:16.620 –> 00:48:30.480 Mike Grehan: If it’s if it’s not your area of business, but at least they’re prepared to put some more money into it, so this is going to be a big year for a few reasons and certainly one of them is that seo is getting a bit more attention and the structured data thing.

00:48:31.440 –> 00:48:31.830 Mike Grehan: I think.

00:48:32.220 –> 00:48:35.310 Mike Grehan: You know people can understand that a little bit more so yeah.

00:48:35.340 –> 00:48:35.700 Joseph McElroy: Good yeah.

00:48:37.350 –> 00:48:47.220 Joseph McElroy: So you know I think structured data, I consider that part of the content right, I think you know I think like we’re talking about data and it’s you know it’s part of wise content.

00:48:47.550 –> 00:48:58.020 Mike Grehan: Absolutely, you know, as I said before, I can’t emphasize enough that going forward that you know google’s been very good at training the industry to do what Google wanted to.

00:48:58.020 –> 00:48:58.230 Do.

00:49:00.180 –> 00:49:06.060 Mike Grehan: they’ve become very good at doing that and diverting you away from things that they don’t want you to do but.

00:49:06.810 –> 00:49:14.160 Mike Grehan: You know, in that presentation that we’ve been talking about you see in the one of the two of the engineers Google engineers.

00:49:14.550 –> 00:49:24.060 Mike Grehan: That were featured in that, and that the way that they were talking about again without getting deep in the weeds that if you get the structured data on your web page right if you get the schema.

00:49:24.300 –> 00:49:31.710 Mike Grehan: right on the web page they’ll actually pull that data, the structured data and put it straight into Google assistant so.

00:49:31.770 –> 00:49:33.990 Joseph McElroy: The boys always search works boom wow.

00:49:34.230 –> 00:49:35.520 Mike Grehan: Always search exactly so.

00:49:35.520 –> 00:49:43.770 Mike Grehan: Not only do I go to your web page and see it’s better decorated because it has you know all of the ingredients for the cookies that you’re making.

00:49:44.130 –> 00:49:54.570 Mike Grehan: That you know when your wife or one of the kids in the kitchen cooking making the cookies they’re talking to Google and Google is actually speaking and giving the instructions of the recipe back you know so that’s.

00:49:54.870 –> 00:49:55.410 Mike Grehan: A big deal.

00:49:55.650 –> 00:50:05.850 Joseph McElroy: And speaking, the best CEOs out there if you’re a B2B company if you’re not doing faq schema on your websites, you are missing the boat already absolutely yes.

00:50:07.230 –> 00:50:13.950 Joseph McElroy: So um tell you know tell us a little about what what’s up next for you what’s acronym doing you know and.

00:50:15.030 –> 00:50:16.320 Joseph McElroy: where people can connect with you.

00:50:17.160 –> 00:50:18.540 Mike Grehan: hey yeah I mean I couldn’t.

00:50:19.650 –> 00:50:29.100 Mike Grehan: it’s it’s interesting like I say you know we’ve got this beautiful headquarters on the 65th floor of the empire state building with these beautiful views and nobody’s been there for a year it’s been.

00:50:31.380 –> 00:50:40.140 Mike Grehan: You know, as we like yourself, we were very big in the hospitality travel space our clients, some of them got hit very badly with that.

00:50:40.710 –> 00:50:48.840 Mike Grehan: One of our clients was the other way around, as i’ve mentioned before you know we work with fortunately fabulous company scotts miracle gro.

00:50:49.230 –> 00:50:57.480 Mike Grehan: And during the pandemic people go garden again lots but that worked out well for us, I I think probably the major transformation.

00:50:58.080 –> 00:51:03.330 Mike Grehan: is something that you can see industry wide and whether you like it or not, you’ll tend to follow this.

00:51:03.810 –> 00:51:12.300 Mike Grehan: And that is that people talk much more about performance marketing as a kind of sector, you know middle sector between.

00:51:12.570 –> 00:51:23.580 Mike Grehan: Being the search marketing company and the full service digital agency there’s this performance marketing bracket in between, so we have broadened even though we’ve been around doing seo.

00:51:24.600 –> 00:51:26.910 Mike Grehan: 25 years I mean a long time.

00:51:28.170 –> 00:51:43.020 Mike Grehan: We broaden out our ranges range of services, so you know, certainly were recognized now as a leading performance marketing agency So are we doing seo and paid search, yes, we are, are we doing social media, yes, we are i’ll be doing programmatic yes, we are we doing it all, you know.

00:51:43.320 –> 00:51:46.470 Joseph McElroy: cool and you got another book or anything coming out.

00:51:47.580 –> 00:51:50.670 Mike Grehan: You know I sit around i’ve got manuscripts for three.

00:51:50.940 –> 00:51:59.400 Mike Grehan: two of which are about one of those about search that one’s more about digital marketing the third one is X rated we can talk about that, but.

00:52:02.010 –> 00:52:03.450 Mike Grehan: Most people want to talk about that.

00:52:03.540 –> 00:52:07.650 Mike Grehan: Right yeah yeah but that but that’s about my days in rock and roll when I worked in man.

00:52:11.310 –> 00:52:11.820 Joseph McElroy: Go ahead.

00:52:12.090 –> 00:52:19.770 Mike Grehan: Sorry, I was gonna say but yeah so I I keep going back to these manuscripts but certainly by the end of this year, yes, there will be a new book.

00:52:20.010 –> 00:52:22.320 Joseph McElroy: Oh good I want you to come back and tell us about it when he has.

00:52:22.320 –> 00:52:25.680 Joseph McElroy: Earlier How do people connect with you, if they want to.

00:52:26.700 –> 00:52:27.480 Joseph McElroy: ask you questions.

00:52:28.140 –> 00:52:29.730 Mike Grehan: Just Google me, you can find me.

00:52:29.730 –> 00:52:32.100 Joseph McElroy: i’m all right there you go you’re all over the place.

00:52:32.340 –> 00:52:32.850 Mike Grehan: I am.

00:52:33.090 –> 00:52:33.540 Joseph McElroy: Well, thank you.

00:52:34.350 –> 00:52:35.820 Mike Grehan: Father said, like oh shit.

00:52:38.190 –> 00:52:45.030 Joseph McElroy: Well, thank you so much for coming on we’ve been we’ve been known each other for a while now and it’s good to have a conversation recorded.

00:52:45.420 –> 00:52:46.020 Mike Grehan: Thanks very much.

00:52:48.390 –> 00:52:58.230 Joseph McElroy: So I want to tell you about the the tool tip of the day and and Mike knows a lot about this tool as well it’s called bright it just is for the enterprise stuff smoked so much for the small.

00:52:59.640 –> 00:53:07.170 Joseph McElroy: Companies but it’s a global leader in enterprise organic growth search and content and it’s powered by a very deep.

00:53:08.220 –> 00:53:14.010 Joseph McElroy: Learning engines and it classifies the search engine results by category layout and intent.

00:53:14.430 –> 00:53:25.680 Joseph McElroy: And since 84% of keywords have featured snippets and 25% of keywords include quick answers is imperative for marketers to understand each Sir and how it affects traffic and performance.

00:53:26.220 –> 00:53:37.080 Joseph McElroy: If you are using bright edge, you are an Ai marketer Okay, instead of getting hundreds of recommendations, you get really smart recommendations on what you should do, for your content.

00:53:37.830 –> 00:53:47.460 Joseph McElroy: Right its leaves and smart content which I call wise content which blend blends the best of search marketing artificial intelligence and content marketing to.

00:53:47.820 –> 00:54:04.470 Joseph McElroy: Power the development activation and optimization of high performing content, it is the heart of modern marketing and will feel modern marketing going forward content is self aware and self adjusting improving content and discovery and engagement is important.

00:54:05.490 –> 00:54:16.200 Joseph McElroy: All right, go check out bright edge alright, so a few shout outs, once you i’m on their talk radio dot nyc network so once you to check out Jeremiah fox.

00:54:16.950 –> 00:54:23.880 Joseph McElroy: comes to the show before me the entrepreneurial when you want to find out more about this podcast go to wise content creates wealth calm.

00:54:24.240 –> 00:54:33.540 Joseph McElroy: And don’t forget the look at my company Galileo tech media COM where specialist and creating wise content for marketing and for companies that need to get.

00:54:34.110 –> 00:54:50.910 Joseph McElroy: great results in the search engines and I appreciate you next week we’ll have another great show and we’ll have some great great guests and check out my other podcast gateway to the smokies on Tuesday from one to two i’m talk radio dot nyc bye.